By Tulis McCall
I had the pleasure of sitting down with A.J. Homes and his two cats, Max and Spiro for a great conversation. A.J. did most of the talking on his side of things. Here is my review of his show “Yeah, But Not Right Now.” I recommend it. HIGHLY.
Tulis McCall
What is A.J. for?
A.J. Holmes
Andrew James. My parents didn’t like the name Andy or Drew, so it became A.J.
Tulis McCall
How long have you been doing this show?
A.J. Holmes
Gosh, I guess it started in… Well, the first time we did was in August of 2019. And that was really the very beginning of developing it. I didn’t really have a show. I had producers for a show, and I had written a blurb about the show. But I had failed and neglected to write the show…
I sort of got in my own head and in my own way, and then other projects took my attention, and then I showed up in Scotland without a show. I started panicking and stayed up all night for a week writing it. Then started doing the thing—and making a lot of it up. Every time we got a laugh we’d go “Well, that’s going to go in the show!” We built it over that whole month. Then we took it to Adelaide in 2020 right before the pandemic hit. Took it to Melbourne Comedy Fest, but that whole festival got canceled, right? And then a year and a half later, you know, that’s where I met, Darren Lee Cole who is the owner of Soho Playhouse. I had to go all the way to Australia to meet the guy who runs a theater in Soho. Darren offered me a run at Soho, so then we finally wrote the show.
Tulis McCall
When you say “we” – who is we?
A.J. Holmes
WE is mainly me and my director Caitlin Cook. She and I got connected when I was at Edinburgh. We both had our own solo shows there. We also perform together as a as a musical comedy duo. For this run, she’s really stepped in as a director and has been writing it a lot with me. Organizing it and structuring it in a way that it is what I always wanted the show to be but never could do on my own. When you’re writing something about yourself, it’s so easy to get in your own head and in your own way. It’s so helpful to have a collaborator who can see outside of you and say, “THIS is what’s important.”
Tulis McCall
Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been down that road. Austin Pendleton is my director right now. He is that critical outside eye who sees things I do not. Sounds like Caitlin does that for you.
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, you got it. It’s hard to be in both parts of my writer and director brain.
Tulis McCall
Yeah. And, and it’s none of your business. Really, when you think about it, you need to be your brain. And your director is in her brain. There should be boundaries!
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, uh well, a few of those boundaries got, um, got squashed when we—me and Caitlin, plus our sound designer—we all got COVID together, even though all three of us are fully vaxed. We were in close quarters in my apartment. We all got sick within a couple of days of each other. Pre-production got really slammed with COVID.
Tulis McCall
Well, I think that’s great that, nobody mentioned it. You know, I think your PR people did a great job of saying nothing had changed. Moving along. Yeah,
A.J. Holmes
It was way before actual performances, before we were actually in the theater. There was never any danger of, you know, needing to push back actual shows. My press people said, why don’t you talk about it? You should tell the people, “Yeah, COVID, what a crazy thing. You know, because truly it was the show that COVID built.” We had our other plans, but we had to cancel them and stay together and make the show even better.
Tulis McCall
I think that might be a good suggestion now that it’s been a while. I remember when you say, “We just wrote this last night.” I think that I think the COVID thing—you could make that just hilarious, as you know, because that’s what you pretty much do all the time. How to have fun on your COVID retreat? Little did we know, we were going to be so…
A.J. Holmes
Someone was going to Italy for a wedding. We all had things we were going to do and…
Tulis McCall
…Someone was going to Italy?
A.J. Holmes
My director Caitlin. Her best friend was getting married in Italy. And Caitlin had a whole trip planned.
Tulis McCall
Oooohhh, Caitlin… that’s why it happened. You could blame it on her. Anyway, what’s the point of this show? What are you doing it for?
A.J. Holmes
One is the idea of shame and how much it holds us back. I was held back by my own personal shame for just so long. And I look back at that time, and I sort of mourn for it. Because I don’t think any time is ever wasted. You know, it all brought me to exactly where I am. So, so I can’t ever say it was for nothing. If it took me this long, that’s just the path that I took. I think the more you can hear that message, the better. I wish I had heard that message more. You have to find it out for yourself. And it takes the time it takes. Let go of the shame because it’s you are holding yourself back with that negative thought spiral. I found myself putting on a show just to avoid those feelings.
The other part of it was the performative nature of the song and dance that I found myself doing to avoid processing that shame. Then I got so tied up in that that it was starting to get hard to tell the difference between what was just me doing this tap dance and what was my shame.
I like it to stay pretty silly. You never want to be too on the nose with these things. And that process was going, “Okay,” as in “Can we really say this out loud?” Right? And where can we just keep painting this picture? We try to dive deep for a couple moments to show there is at least a genuine feeling there. Whether it’s something you relate to in your personal life or not, you can see how this emotional thing can take a toll and then how to find your way out of it and let something like that go.
You know, we used to have a song at the end of the show that was just literally called the poop song. Which was just the stupidest silliest song in the world, you know, which is why we ended up cutting it, even though we love it. But it’s just “every day I try to push a poo out of my butt” and it became a metaphor for just letting go of shame.
Tulis McCall
Why did you cut it?
A.J. Holmes
Well, because it felt like after we got to this ending, and we got to this new “authentic place” — it felt underhanded to sing a four-minute song about bowel movements. A little, a little rude.
Tulis McCall
Well, maybe it’s going to be in your next show. might be the opening number. “Right now, for something completely different…”
A.J. Holmes
That’s right. The closing may be the opening.
Tulis McCall
Tell me something no one’s ever asked you before that you think—why don’t they ask me about this?
A.J. Holme
Honestly, you’re already doing that.
Tulis McCall
Right. So, what do you want to do with show?
A.J. Holmes
Well, we’re going to film the final weekend. I’m lucky enough to have a certain contingent of loyal fans who have liked me throughout the years. StarKid and things like that. They have expressed desire to want to watch it online, and so I can put it out there and sell it on the back end, and, honestly, try to make some money back. Off-Broadway is not a way to make money. No, no, no, no. It’s expensive to follow your dreams. It’s true. I am having a great time, but it’s expensive to have all your dreams. I wrote that on my Twitter and Jeff Marx, who wrote Avenue Q, replied and said, “It’s more expensive not to.”
Tulis McCall
Well, I love that comment. It’s more expensive not to.
A.J. Holmes
I love it too. Yeah, yeah, definitely been the case for everyone working on this thing. Our sound designer Craig Bundy used to work for YouTube, and he is a very highly regarded sound engineer. He’s doing this for pennies. My director Caitlin Cook has got a lot of well-paying job offers that she’s turning down left and right. I’m focusing all my time on this so we can all lose money together and do this thing that we love. It’s kind of beautiful, you know? I’m struck every day by the support around me right now. We all want to do it for each other. You’ve got to invest in yourself and hope that something pays off, you know?
Tulis McCall
I think that’s so important. What you’re doing, you’re creating your own art. Do you have a what’s next after this run?
A.J. Holmes
I’m wondering whether I want to keep doing it live. Honestly. I mean, I think we’ve submitted to the San Francisco Sketch Fest. So maybe we’ll try and get in there. You know, I’ve done it once in London. I’ve done it in LA, and now these six weeks in New York. I think it’s fully baked. We’re releasing an album of this. We’ve been doing multi-tracking with the show every night. So we’ll have the best take of each song. And we can do a live album. We’ve got a music studio we’ve been building all year in my basement. We’re going to start recording the studio album. And there’s a link on my website to help us do that and…
Tulis McCall
Do you live in an actual house, you have a basement?
A.J. Holmes
I found this place with two levels. And Craig Bundy has built a proper music studio in the basement. We’re going to start renting it out.
Tulis McCall
Okay, well, this is, if this is the zenith you know, then do you have a What’s Next?
A.J. Holmes
I’m directing my director’s show. We’re going to switch roles. I’ll be directing her. And, we have our monthly show that we’re continuing to build that’s been going great: Fake Birthday, which is a comedy show in Brooklyn.
Tulis McCall
I didn’t know about that. Fake Birthday?
A.J. Holmes
Fake Birthday. Yeah, yeah, we just had one. Let’s see. We had David Cross on there. We’ve had Chris Gethard on there. We’ve had great lineups; the audience is just awesome. It’s a home for Caitlin and me as our comedy musical comedy duo Two Thirds of a Threesome. For the last three-four months, we’ve written a new song the day before and debuted it at Fake Birthday. So, the audience knows they’re always going to hear something new. And it’s a very warm reception, a very wholesome vibe. We’re very proud of that show. And I think we’re going to go on tour with that in the winter to Boston and DC and in LA in November. There are always more shows.
Tulis McCall
Good, good. You have to throw that hook out, pull yourself forward, and then when you get there you throw it out. You know, somebody said to me, she plans something to look forward to twice a month.
A.J. Holmes
I would love twice a month. Four shows a week for six weeks. I’m ready for a break. But yeah, twice a month. Sounds good.
Tulis McCall
Well, it’s exhausting. It is.
A.J. Holmes
And I know it’s only half my show schedule of what I used to do in the Book of Mormon. And, you know, in Young Frankenstein with production schedule, right, that’s eight shows a week.
Tulis McCall
And yeah, but this is this is you—97% you, and when you’re the only person up there you must figure out a way to energize yourself after you perform. You got to fill up your tank. Everybody’s got their own way to do that. I think like I said in my review, I think you’re very brave to have smart people open for you. Marcia Belsky was hilarious.
Oh StarKid? What’s that?
A.J. Holmes
StarKid is— well I’m wearing the star kid jacket.
Tulis McCall
Yes, you are. I wondered what university that was?
A.J. Holmes
Yes, yes. StarKid university. So, we all went to University of Michigan, and I met this group of people that were making these silly shows. They did a Lord of the Rings parody that was hysterical. I saw it twice. And then I wrote a little 24-hour musical with them that was very inappropriate. And then based on that they asked me if I would write songs with Harry Potter musical they were making. It was in a little black box, and we did five performances. We added a fifth I think because it was gone so well at Michigan, and we thought well isn’t that great? We put it on YouTube, and it just blew up. And we got very scared, and we took it down because there were some things that were so inappropriate that we thought we don’t want the world seeing that!
Nothing terrible. I think we were a little over-sensitive. We went, “Oh, that’s not for public consumption. That’s a college kid joke. We put it back up, and I think it has something like 9 million views now maybe more. Blown up into a cultish fan internet phenomenon. One thing I get is people who say they love StarKid and, and the people who have met each other because of StarKid, who have flown from different states and different countries and hung out and become best friends because of their shared love for this thing.
Tulis McCall
Oh my god.
A.J. Holmes
The group itself is much bigger than me. It’s an ensemble of people all connected by Michigan and people we picked up along the way. They’ve done 8-9-10 full length internet YouTube musicals by now. I wrote four or five of them. My favorite being Twisted because that’s my baby. It’s Aladdin from Jafar’s perspective. It flips that story on its head, and we wrote a very Alan Menken-esque score. Jafar is a good-hearted dude, and Aladdin is a total dick, who just runs authorized parades through the kingdom and is 33-years-old and is trying to date the 16-year-old princess.
Tulis McCall
Sounds about right. Yeah. And is Jafar—I’ve never seen the show—is he the genie?
A.J. Holmes
Jafar is the villain. He’s the guy with the long hair and the staff. He’s the villain so he’s misunderstood.
Tulis McCall
Aren’t they all? You know, it’s rough.
A.J. Holmes
It’s rough. Like me in my show. I show you all the worst things I’ve done, and then I go, “Am I just misunderstood? Please like me anyway.”
Tulis McCall
Yeah, well, you do a nice catch there. Because you take us down the rabbit hole. And then you go out and catch your own flyball. It’s like a little wink-wink moment. Totally. And it works. Thanks. You make us say ENOUGH!
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, we can stop now. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Tulis McCall
Because you were an asshole. And we know it. And you know.it That’s right. Yeah. Yeah, yep. That’s okay. Very cool.
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, the idea is, “I own it, not condone it.”
Tulis McCall
I like that. Thank you. Has your mother seen it?
A.J. Holmes
Oh yes. Yeah, she was here this past weekend.
Tulis McCall
And do you introduce her in the crowd? And did she stand up?
A.J. HolmesShe does stand up. In fact, she said, “Yes, I’m his mother, and I love him very much!”
Tulis McCall
She should have launched into song or something.
Observation: It sounds to me like you’re in freefall.
A.J. Holmes
How do you mean?
Tulis McCall
Well, you’re following your nose, you’re following the scent of “What’s this show doing? Where’s that going to take me? No, I think we’ll do that.” Then that happens, and you throw out the harpoon or whatever and it lands, and you pull yourself forward to a new place. Then you say, “Well okay, where else do I want to go from here?” You throw it out again, and you pull yourself forward again. It’s more about being creative and being happy than it is about, “I want this specific thing or that the specific thing.” I think you want to be creating all the time.
A.J. Holmes
That’s absolutely right. Yeah, every time you get a little further on the ice, you can see a little farther, right? Yeah, where to go next. And yeah, I mean, if there’s anything I want in a more long-term sense, it’s just for more people to be connected with the people who appreciate it and to be able to cheer them up and give them good stuff to watch and have a bigger community to go on this journey with because what is cool is people who come on the ride from StarKid and onto my other projects, they stay on board. Yeah, they celebrate and suffer through the years, and it’s cool to have that type of like long-term audience.
Tulis McCall
Yeah, I was going to ask you— whence comes your audience?
A.J. Holmes
A lot from StarKid. A lot from The Book of Mormon and then people who connected with me. There is a Broadway thing, and there’s a new comedy thing. More local audiences. There are people who will sign on the livestreams for stuff that they never attend in person. I have one fan who;s in Ireland. I think she’s always number one tweeting me, you know, and it is amazing support, and I havent ever done a show in Ireland. I just did an Irish accent there.
Tulis McCall
You did. Oh, just the thought of her made you lilt. Yes.
A.J. Holmes
“The thought of her makes me lilt.” It’s a great line, I don’t know if it’s polite, but it’s a great line. My folks—they’ve sort of been picked up along like tumbleweed.
Tulis McCall
So how long have you been in the business? I mean, when did you do Mormon? What years?
A.J. Holmes
Mormon, I started 2013. I graduated college 2011. And I did a tour of Young Frankenstein right after that. Where I played Dr. Frankenstein, and it was a non-equity bus and truck tour all around the country and Canada. Nine months.
Tulis McCall
Yeah, I had a one woman show that I toured for 15 years. I produced it and I was the lighting director – blah blah blah. Yep. Yep. Then you got into Mormon? That was 2013.
A.J. Holmes
Yeah. I remember seeing the original cast with my grandma. When we won the lottery to go see the Broadway show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then she sees me take over the role before she passed, which was awesome.
Tulis McCall
Oh, man. Fantastic.
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, that always makes me very happy. You know, they’re performing in the same theater where we had seen it. Mormonwas five and a half years total— a couple of six months breaks off of that. And then in between that I worked on South Park during one of those six months breaks. Yeah, they had gotten to know me through opening the Australian company and they knew I was a writer, and so they asked me to come do one episode. And now I think I honestly, I think I was just quiet enough where they didn’t like kick me out until the season was over. But there were a few weeks where I got to be actually helpful that was very cool.
Tulis McCall
Yeah. Yeah. Because those were the same guys that did Mormon, right?
A.J. Holmes
That’s right. Yes. Right. Yeah, that’s how I saw I knew them. And yeah, I was pinching myself, because I love South Park. I’m a huge fan and, and the writers’ room is six or seven people big. I got to help Trey, who wrote the score. I got to help them write a song for South Park. And then they had a bunch of kids singing it, you know, and so I got to direct all these eight-year-olds and record. I got to sing. And that was great. It was awesome.
Tulis McCall
And then then you went to Edinburgh and did this show. I mean, isn’t that sort of?
A.J. Holmes
That’s it. Yeah. I went back to Australia one more time, got back, and said, “Okay, I’m done for real now.” I went back and forth with Mormon, like, like four different times, you know, like, I’m leaving. I’m leaving. Don’t stop me. All right, one more run. You know. It’s hard. It’s hard to turn down that paycheck. You know?
Tulis McCall
Yeah. Part of your five and a half years with Mormon was touring.
A.J. Holmes
Oh, yeah. big part of it. Yeah. I mean, it’s the most fun show I’ve ever done. And I think might ever do. You know that role is— Elder Cunningham is such a fun role. He’s the weird one. He’s the doofus.
Tulis McCall
Right? Yeah. Until he figures out how to make everything wonderful.
A.J. Holmes
That’s right. Yes. Right. By pretending that the Book of Mormon is more about Star Trek and Star Wars and Lord of the Rings.
Tulis McCall
Which, when you think about it, is not so far off. What else do you want to tell me?
A.J. Holmes
Well, I don’t know. I’m excited about these next two weeks. The opening acts have been, as you say, one of the coolest parts about it as I’ve gotten to meet people who I’m huge fans of. Taylor Tomlinson. She’s a young comedian. She has a special on Netflix that came out when she was 25. She’s hilarious. She’s got like, half a million followers on Instagram, I’d say so she’s big with my generation. I am such a genuine fan of her comedy. I’m watching it on online all the time. To suddenly just be hanging out together backstage is like, “Whoa!” That’s the coolest part about getting older and being in this business. Meeting people you’ve admired from afar. Who now apparently also digs your stuff? Yeah, want to chill and have some laughs. Yeah. That the show is fun. But I mean, those times, we just got to hang out. I was like, this is, this is so cool.
Tulis McCall
So how did you decide? You just threw names into a hat and said, this is who I’d like to have?
A.J. Holmes
It was based on who we were connected to, and we went based on who we could get a lead on. And who we felt would serve the show best, right? Because the idea with the openers was always, like, “I want you to lighten the mood and lay the groundwork so that I can come and dump my issues on everybody for an hour. You’ve got to lighten the mood.” Yeah. There was a certain tone of comedian that we liked better than other tones. You know, it’s not so much like a dingy comedy club vibe. It’s more it’s a more theater crowd. It’s a more wholesome vibe, you know, and certainly any musical comedians, I knew were top of my list to get in, because I love building that sort of fellowship. This weird bastardized cross section of music and comedy that doesn’t get much respect. People go. “Oh, you mean like Bo Burnham?” Well, yeah, he’s one of them. And he’s great, but there’s a million others, and I want you to get to know them because it’s like one of my favorite genres.
Tulis McCall
Bo Burnham. I don’t know any of these people either! Yipes!
A.J. Holmes A young guy— he was born even a little after me.
Tulis McCall
So, it’s safe to say my winter coat is older than he?
A.J. Holmes
I wouldn’t zoom say that— that’s not my place—but he’s had three Netflix specials. One more recently. That was just incredible. Caitlin Cook, Marcia Belsky, Dylan Adler, Tom McGovern, these are all musical comedians I’m so happy to feature. And then when my old friends from college can come back like Britney Coleman and Darren Criss, who have gotten famous in their own right, and support me when they have millions and millions of followers—it’s just it’s hysterical. I feel very supported and deeply grateful for the time to lend me legitimacy like that.
Tulis McCall
Well, they’re also meeting new people, a new audience. It’s a big a win-win for everybody.
A.J. Holmes
Especially for the people who are more green and newer. We’ve had a couple of people who are early in their careers. Syd Matisse came through. She was lovely. She’s blown up on TikTok. She’s got these great little funny songs and a great vibe. I’ve gotten to know new people, and I think my audience has gotten to know new people. I have gotten to support and be supported by people way bigger than me.
Tulis McCall
You know, it’s easy to easy to think you’re just diddling around up there having a good old time, which of course you are, but you make it look easy. People don’t suspect how much work you’ve put into it. I mean, you look like a guy who’s kind of just freelancing his way through the show. And that’s not true. Yeah.
And I think you’re very smart as well, when you have a smart person who opens the show. They turn our listening on. And they only have 10 minutes or so to do it. But they makes it so we’re already listening. So, when you come on, we’ve been we’ve been made aware that listening is the deal.
A.J. Holmes
And the comics can do a lot in 10 minutes. And what’s cool too, is they’re always looking for more spots. You know, they’re always just they’re working on their material, and they need these 10-minute spots to figure out what that kind of container the new stuff feels like.
Tulis McCall
Yeah, ALSO you couldn’t fit one more piece of equipment on that stage. No, you can’t. I’m sorry. And all the recording stuff. What do you call that? The looper? Oh, I love that. Yeah. That was great. You brought down the house when you pulled out the steel drum.
Tulis McCall
Where’s the next place you want to land?
A.J. Holmes
Probably in bed for a while. Looking forward to a break.
I finally got to play this video game I used to play a lot during the pandemic with my buddy. He’s my sound guy—you know the sound designer. We haven’t played it in a month because we’ve been doing this show nonstop. We finally played it tonight and it just felt so good to just waste a little bit of time. No, not waste.
Tulis McCall
No, I know what you mean. After bed?
A.J. Holmes
Yeah, after bed, I’d like to get more into releasing things digitally, like the album first and foremost, and then also just making more video content and online content because it seems like that can spread farther and wider more quickly, right? Because then you can build that audience even faster for people who cannot come to the live shows. The live shows are sort of where my heart is, you know. I love the live shows. I never want to stop doing them. But in order to find your audience, it feels like I have to go explore the technological side of it a little more first, right?
And truly, I kind of wonder if it doesn’t ultimately just serve me anyway, if people take it and share it. These people are still finding out about me. Yeah, YouTube is free. You know I kind of think that at the theater, too. I get in the debate about: don’t let people take photos or videos. Why? We want publicity, right? I do think it can be distracting for an audience member to see a phone out filming. But other than that, it’s just positive all around. Which is kind of the point—right?
UPCOMING SHOW SCHEDULE AND GUESTS
SoHo Playhouse (15 Vandam Street).
Thursday, October 7th at 7pm
Friday, October 8th at 7pm
Saturday, October 9th at 7pm
Saturday, October 9th at 9pm
Thursday, October 14th at 7pm
Friday, October 15th at 7pm
Saturday, October 16th at 7pm
Saturday, October 16th at 9pm
A.J Holmes has also announced the upcoming special guests for these performances. The schedule is as follows:
10/7 Dylan Adler (Hulu, NYT, NY Comedy Fest, UCB)
10/8 Matteo Lane (Netflix’s The Comedy Line-Up, Colbert, Seth Meyers, and HBO’s Crashing)
10/9 Cat Cohen (Netflix’s Quarter Life Crisis, Fallon, Conan, and Comedy Central)
10/14 Josh Johnson (The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Comedy Central)
10/15 Shane Torres (Comedy Central, Conan)
10/16 (early show) Ransom Pier (ransompierband.com)
10/16 (late show) Caitlin Cook (HBO’s WICF, Edinburgh Fringe, SIRIUSXM, NY Comedy Fest)
